Question:
Meat-eater stereotypes?
anonymous
2007-11-19 16:45:12 UTC
Why do people assume that because I eat meat that I am going to grow up unhealthy and die early. Eating meat doesn't give you heart problems and cancer. Eating Greasy SOYBEAN McDonalds FAKE MEAT BURGERS 5 times a day does.

I eat 2-3 servings of meat(palm size not that jumbo steak) and drink 2-3 servings of milk when I can. That way I get my nutrients. Eating meat isn't bad for you if avoid deep frying it in pig lard and slather it in butter and grease while toping it with fat drippings. I am tired of hearing "because I am vegetarian that I won't have such a high percentage of heart disease or getting cancer" Vegans never want to acknowledge that vegan diets can cause anemia, rickets, cretinism, osteomalacia, and hyperthyroidism.

Also a vegitarian diet can be beneficial to you but please be one for the RIGHT reason which is your body.

Saying "EATING DEAD CARCUSS IS NASTY AND GROSS!" is not only a poor excuse but they make other veggie fans look bad and ignorant.
Fifteen answers:
Skully
2007-11-20 06:13:10 UTC
"Your additional comments about dairy are quite laughable. "Stess causes milk to tate bad" - who said that ??



I live in the beef and dairy community, do you ?

Do you see dairy farms every few days ?"



The above quote, Video, demonstrates someone can live somewhere but still remain stupid about your surroundings. Once again, Michael H ... the "free range" i.e. "lazy farmer", shows he is misinformed and not too bright. The old saying "contented cows" has its roots grounded in animal and agricultural science and in the innate knowledge of generations of GOOD farmers, not only for milk and milk production, but for the good treatment and stress reduction of a living creature.



http://www.mosesorganic.org/broadcaster/13.5prevent905.htm

http://www.cowtime.com.au/technical/QuickNotes/Quick_Note_1_1.pdf

http://www.das.psu.edu/dairynutrition/documents/grandin.pdf

http://www.grandin.com/references/milkpro.html

http://www.nwnyteam.org/AgFocus2007/Jan/ProductionQMPS.htm



Just ignore this silly tosser, Video ....



What you are advocating is a balanced, moderate diet. There can be no argument with that. And as a flexitarian vegetarian, I agree with you about HOW you prepare the meat contributes to the health or "unhealth" of it.



Remembers that vegans and vegetarians in modern cultures are "oddities" and social misfits with an agenda. It is these modern day vegans and vegetarians that give the rest of them a bad name. They are the ones that suffer from nutrient deficiencies, psychological problems, etc. The ancient cultures ... India, Japan, etc., that have large percentages of vegetarians and vegans would agree as well.



So carry on with your balanced diet and have pity on whatever social forces produce these pathetic creatures.
majnun99
2007-11-19 18:07:00 UTC
You are right about one thing--some vegetarians and vegans get overly enthusiastic about the health benefits. Also, exercise is extremely important, and there is no reason why a diet that includes meat can't be healthy.



However, the American and Canadian Dietetic Associations acknowledge that vegetarians tend to have lower cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, lower rates of heart disease, colon and prostate cancer. But, it would be extremely simplistic and inaccurate to say that EVERY vegetarian is healthier than EVERY meat eater.



You start out making some very good points, but then it quickly dissolves into misinformation and stereotypes (the very thing you claim to be against).



Not sure where you got your information about eating "5 McDonald's fake meat burgers" and causing cancer and heart problems. When was that study done?



No, well-planned vegan diets do not cause any of those things you mention; but malnutrition could. Therefore, you are repeating a stereotype that vegans are all suffering from malnutrition. If you stuck with your original argument, you would have come off as more intelligent.



Oh, eating dead carcass is nasty and gross. There, I said it.
b
2007-11-23 16:44:51 UTC
"Also seriously DRINK YOUR MILK!!!!! Cows for Milking have been getting treated with a lot more care than in the 70s back when they were thrown around. Also stress causes the milk to taste bad so they try to make the cow as comfortable as possible. The cows goo give milk in the special time whenever they feel like doing it to prevent stress and produce quality dairy products. Why are people still cling to this belief that dairy farms are a nightmare. Its 2007 not 1907!!!!!"



Eating/drinking dairy “products” directly supports the veal industry. Do a little research before you speak (or in this case type), or you run the risk of looking like an ignorant jacka$$.
anonymous
2007-11-20 00:52:46 UTC
ahh hahaha i can feel the rickets coming on right now! no seriously tho, eating a carcass is damn gross thats not ignorant, its the truth, some people enjoy actually peeling the skin of chicken and eating it...SKIN! thats morbid. statistically speaking vegetarians are healthier because of their increased vegetable and fuit intake, i havent seen too much debate about that, its not grouping all meat eaters into a mcdonalds loving group, its just making a statement, take from it what you will. vegans typically are obviously very concious of what they eat, and i dont know a single one who is anemic or anything else listed...especially rickets...? you can get those problems eating any type of diet, and your chances are not higher if you are vegan. and also an out loud laughing fit to the happy little cows in the dairy farms! wake up, your dreaming!
Michael H
2007-11-20 01:49:11 UTC
Ranting in the vegetarian and vegan sections just fules the sterotype you are trying to remove.



Your additional comments about dairy are quite laughable. "Stess causes milk to tate bad" - who said that ??



I live in the beef and dairy community, do you ?

Do you see dairy farms every few days ?



Generally speaking, meat-eaters have more heart problems, cancer risks and weight problems that non meat eaters. Vegetarians are not exempt from these health problems, there will always be exceptions to the rules both ways.



And you are telling me why I should be veggie - "but please be one for the RIGHT reason which is your body."...



Sorry, i missed the decision where you were given the right to tell me why and what i should do. Can you remind me when that was, thanks.



You say " that vegan diets can cause anemia, rickets, cretinism, osteomalacia, and hyperthyroidism" and them immediately say you are tired of being thrown into the same pot as fat MCDs eaters. Didn't you just do EXACTLY the same to vegans, lump them all into one pot ??



Your ill-thought out rant has done nothing for any meat-eating cause. It just makes you look like an angry person who needs a little more education.



We often get meaty rants on here, its been a while since we had one that was so poorly thought out with so many contridictions.



Please THINK then TYPE



EDIT: Arrh, I've read through your question history and you are an angry SCHOOL KID. Come back in 30 years time and tell us how healthy your meaty diet is. You have NO long term experience from which to quote. This makes your whole rant about how healthy meat is completely worthless.



I could go on, you have posted quite a few questions about "sterotypes", why are you worried about labels. Can you not be confident in being an individual, why worry about what others think of you..



EDIT: this "silly tosser" can read. None of the links Skully quotes talk about milk tasting bad if the animal is stressed. They all talk about reduced milk production.



And i also note that much of the recommendations in those reports are not followed in the "best in class" dairies that I see.



Words such as "lazy farmer", "tosser" etc are just personal insults. If you want to identify with that and consider it an acurate answer, help youself.



I though you ( Skully ) said you were here to study the behaviour of veggies ? Why don't just concentrate on your insults rather than posting links to reports that seem to agree with you ...until you actually read them that is.



and just fyi for a laugh...a few of us were discussing trolls in this forum and coming up with single word descriptions of them...we couldn't agree on a single word for you...we settled on the word "poison" but ALL wanted to include the word "pure" before it. You should be very proud.
PJsmith
2007-11-19 21:29:35 UTC
one reason might be because how many meat eaters respond to someone when they find out they dont eat meat. that puts the non meat eaters into more of a position where they have to defend there decisions to try and get acceptance.

Most of the things you list as vegan diets cource can be avoided by a varied and healthy diet.
?
2007-11-20 06:26:56 UTC
Ok, I'll try to correct some of your inaccuracies, but I don't think I can get them all (hey, I've got to work and sleep some time).



Nobody said everyone who eats meat will be unhealthy and die early. That's ridicuous. 95% of the world's population eats meat, if they all died "early", it wouldn't be "early", it would just be average. Also, most veg*ns were meat eaters at one time, and we didn't all get cancer and heart disease, there are a lot more factors to good health.



However, when you hear veg*ns state that they have a lower risk of heart disease and cancer, that is statistically the truth. Hundreds of studies done by organizations as diverse as the UN, the World Health Organization, Insurance companies, and the Union of Concerned Scientists have all come to the conclusive fact that a plant-based diet significantly lowers one's risk for many diseases, including diabetes, cancers, hypertension, etc. It's not propaganda, it's good science.



The "facts" you are served by the meat and dairy industry are propaganda, however. The 50-year-old notion that you can only get proper nutrients from meat and dairy is one that has been ingrained in our culture by the billions of advertising dollars of those industries. It is marketing, not science.



As for those vegan diseases you mentioned, I'll try to respond without laughing too hard. I know literally hundreds of vegans, in person and online, and I have never heard of ONE of them having any of the diseases you mentioned or, for that matter, any nutrient deficiency or other chronic or debilitating condition. That's just silly.



Oh, and eating dead carcass IS nasty and gross, I hate to break it to you.



There, I think I got everything.
KuroNekko
2007-11-19 17:45:28 UTC
Dude, you could not be more wrong about milk and about fake burgers at McDonalds. If there were fake soybean burgers, I'd like to know so I can eat them. Unfortunately, those burgers mostly come from spent dairy cows that have been milked indoors for most of their lives to feed a species (humans) that is not supposed to be drinking its milk anyways. ANY adult animal is NOT supposed to be drinking any milk in nature.

You do have a point about vegans predisposing themselves to certain health risks, but you fail to look at the most prevalent health problems in the USA and then comparing how vegans/vegetarians fair to meat eaters. Vegetarianism is basically the answer to America's obesity problem, yet people are too dumb and lazy so they believe the "magic diet pill" being sold at 2:34 am on cable TV.

You do have some valid points, but most of your argument is weak and plugged full of assumptions and just wrong information.

Eat meat if you want to, but do your research before making comparisons. Otherwise, you just look stupid to us.
Veganista
2007-11-19 17:16:59 UTC
Wow, animal agribusiness has brainwashed you well. You really need to get some information on this subject that hasn't been tainted by the meat industry. Do you really think that because the Dairy Council tells you that milk is healthy, that means it is true??? They have a product to sell! And going on Wikipedia to look up veganism and then listing off potential risks (as unlikely as they may be) does not make you an expert. Read a little more carefully and learn to do unbiased research and perhaps then you will be qualified to discuss veganism.
Cindy
2014-04-18 19:06:34 UTC
Don't get Vegans and Vegetarians mixed up. It makes you look uneducated.
sam
2007-11-19 17:23:38 UTC
not every vegetarian/vegan stereotype meat eaters. in fact you are being stereotypical by saying that we all do.



you should know.. veggie burgers arent greasy, it purely depends on how you are cooking your food, and its not fake meat... its just soybeans!!! and they are so much helthier for you by the way and with no cholesterol either... but there are some vegetarians who only eat nasty fried foods, and pastas.. but there are others who actually eat healthy. same goes for the meat eaters.



and meat doesnt cause cancer or any of that stuff.. but it has been scientifically proven that by eating meat you are at higher risk for those kinds of diseases. it was even shown in cancer patients on a diet with meat became much worse, while the ones not eating meat were getting better.

and about the milk thing -- cows still are kept in horrible conditions today.. and yes cows produce milk when they are pregnant... but to you honestly think that the owner of the dairy farm really wants to wait for his thousands of cows to get pregnant. no if he did, he would have to have male cows (not part of the dairy buisness) and there would be a lot more unnecessary work for his buisness.. all cows are artificially inseminated, which is rape.



milk-calcium-bone density myth --



(all the following was taken from www.vegsource.com/attwood/milk...







The true connection between milk and strong bones isn't exactly what the dairy industry has been telling us all these years. Calcium balance, the relationship between the intake and loss of the mineral determines bone density, mostly during childhood and adolescence. Good bone density attained by the age of 18 usually lasts a lifetime for people consuming a balanced plant-based diet and remaining physically active. Milk and other dairy products, although rich in calcium, are high in animal protein, which has been shown to create calcium loss through the urinary tract. A 1994 National Institutes of Health Consensus Conference concluded that calcium balance and bone density depended at least 3O percent on the ratio of intake to loss, not on calcium intake alone. According to a report in Science magazine in 1986, evidence is accumulating that calcium intake (considered alone) is not related to bone density



This may explain why countries consuming the most milk also have the highest incidence of osteoporosis. Exceptions exist, but a common determining factor seems to be the high protein consumption in populations who require very high levels of calcium intake. For instance, the RDA of calcium in the United States is up to 1,200 mg daily. This is much higher than the World Health Organization's recommendation of 500 mg. for children and 800 mg for adults. Areas of the world where dietary protein is very low have low national recommendations. In Thailand, for example, the recommended daily intake of calcium is only 400 mg. for all ages. Elderly South African Bantu women, who consume a very low protein diet (5O grams daily, compared with 91 grams for Americans) and only 450 mg. calcium daily, have no osteoporosis despite the calcium drain of nursing an average of 10 children. On the other hand, Eskimos, consuming a very high protein diet (250-400 grams) of fish, and a calcium intake of over 2,000 mg daily, have the highest rate of osteoporosis in the world!



Calcium in Milligrams per 100 Calories

------------------------------...

Arugula..........................

Watercress....................... 800

Turnip greens.................. .650

Collard greens................. 548

Mustard greens.................490

Spinach.......................... 450

Broccoli......................... 387

Swiss cheese................... 250

Milk (2-percent).............. 245

Green onions................... 240

Okra............................. 213

Cabbage.......................... 196

Whole milk..................... 190

Cheddar cheese.............. 179

American cheese............. 160



interesting
Elizabeth J
2007-11-20 02:09:38 UTC
Since when does McDonalds serve mock meat?



Oh, and eating meat DOES give you heart problems and cancer, I thought that that was well-accepted.



http://www.alternet.org/story/13557/

http://books.google.com/books?id=IAZ25rKqCpsC&pg=PA300&lpg=PA300&dq=vegans+vegetarians+overweight+obese+european&source=web&ots=OWwnNQRH61&sig=drxyk9WlN9xJW03t4GSQaq66WeU



I've been vegan since conception and have never even been sick so please cite those sources about anemic vegans, I'd be interested in reading them.
Jessica
2007-11-19 16:58:37 UTC
Rants are against the TOS.



p.s. Don't like it? Stay out of the V&V section, genius.



p.p.s. Way to stereotype while whining about being stereotyped.
anonymous
2007-11-19 16:58:03 UTC
Basically you are correct. Everyone should be able to choose their own diet. I Was Vegan for 2 years, then I became Anemic. I had to switch over to Vegitarian, with the occasional Fish dish.
anonymous
2007-11-19 16:54:35 UTC
You make some very good points.



The regular V&V fanatics are going to tear you up.


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