Veg*ns because of animals?

Question

This question is only for people who are veg*ns because of animals, not because of nature pollution, religion, personal health, for the sake of having a label and so on.

Earlier I made a question here about eating oysters. I wrote that (according to science) they either feel absolutely no pain at all or due to very simplistic nervous system are capable to feel something as painful as a sting of a mosquito at most. Therefore I concluded that it's fine to eat them.

Many people wrote in answers that it doesn't matter at all whether animals feel pain - we just cannot eat them. Why would anyone claim that? Plants don't feel pain - why do you keep eating them? Are people becoming veg*ns because of a trend, without understanding what veg*nism stands for?

Explain your ideas if you're a veg*n but think that animals feeling pain is irrelevant and the only relevant criteria is them being classified as animals.

Answer 1

Eating oysters and other bivalves is not inhumane at all. Vegetarians that give people a hard time about it are oxymoron's. They consume dairy products that may not "kill" an animal , but are absolutely produced from hell facilities which create terrible lives for chicken, cows, ETC. Even if one can argue and say that they wont eat oysters because they "may" feel pain it still makes no sense. Once again the dairy industry causes far more pain to the animals involved with it than eating oysters. Also sustainable oyster farms have no effect on the environment because they are easy and clean to run. Oysters farmed and then put in to bays to get even bigger is another beneficial thing for other fish and the water. The oysters filter nitrogen and other toxins from the water leaving it much cleaner. Sustainable oyster farms all over the Seattle area have been praised for helping clean our bays. I eat mostly plants with the exception of oysters, clams, diver scallops, and mussels. I do not eat dairy at all. There are also many farms that create soy products and others alike that are terrible for the environment and take the lives of many rodents and insects. I will not eat mammals/dairy because I believe they suffer way to much, but pass me the bivalves all day long. Even if it doesn't allow me to be part of a "club" or certain "label". Hardcore vegans like to feel like they have one upped other people more than help which has always driven me mad.

Answer 2

All vegans are such "because of animals", since veganism by DEFINITION means opposition to animal commodification and the resulting lifestyle.



Animals feeling pain IS irrelevant wherein the vast majority do, some do not, but eating EITHER sends the message to a culture hostile to vegans that we're all hypocrites- the majority write us off, anyway.

Strategically, it's stupid to consume oysters and animals like them if making the biggest impact culturally (and therefore, economically) is what's important to you. Every time an omnivore observes a vegetarian, let alone a "vegan" eating oysters, that is just one more added to a dozen reasons to write off the idea of animals having rights.



I think I said as much in your original question, no?

Answer 3

well well good question i believe most vegans that dont eat meat cause they love animals to be a bit short sited in the matter what do you not care for the plants either they are not only here to feed creatures neither are weaker beings its just nature some will die to feed some will live and grow strong from it its a fact and deciding not to eat meat wont stop the butcher if anything you're insuring its death was pointless that sickens me even worse everything will die and i will agree that the ways of agriculture can seem harsh and brutal but unless you change everyone its not gonna change and it only makes the death of these animals a waste i like to take an indian belief on it believing no part should go to waste (heh the only thing from my heritage that i do hold with me) and on top of that meat can help the mind grow ever seen someone void of protein they can be like sheep at times (not always though) in fact if you look at predators they are fast and cunning 1 due to the fact that they have to hunt and 2 because ( and if i remember correctly what i had heard) the meat helps the mind grow and strengthens evolution



im not telling anyone to change only pointing out what i see

thank you for your time

Answer 4

Well animals also show signs of fear, and that is another reason. I honestly have never tried an oyster and I'm sure it would be just disgusting- and it does not classify as 'vegan' either. Vegetarian, yes (or pescetarian). It's your choice though- but I'm vegan for the animals and I still wouldn't eat them... Of course, one reason we don't eat fish is for every fish that is eaten other sea-life died such as seaturtles because they were caught in the net and the sailors just killed them instead of letting them free again. You have a very good question and point there though.

Good luck!

Answer 5

I do believe oysters are conscious, plants are not therefore you can't really kill a plant.



You can prove that we aren't supposed to eat any animals because you would be unable to catch them without weapons and / or equipment but you are capable of simply picking veg out of the ground and eating it.



Another thing that points to us not being designed to eat animals is that wild animals eat veg, poop the seeds out and more veg grows naturally, you have to keep artificially producing and killing animals for the meat supply to continue.



With regards to seafood in particular, though, it is estimated that the seas will be totally empty by 2048 so there will be no oysters for you then.

Answer 6

To a large extent it is just a trend. It's widely believed that you can call yourself a vegetarian only if you eat no meat at all, therefore without thinking teenagers online declare that no matter what, no flesh can be consumed. Scientists proving something doesn't matter either. As Phil said ''I have a feeling that x'' and such personal prejudices are valued much higher than facts.

Answer 7

I am vegan because of animals. I am also a critical thinker and have witnessed science change their mind about any issue you want to look at. Because of this I look at the information I see and make up my own mind. I am not convinced that they do not feel pain. Why would they be the only ones to not feel pain? It doesn't make sense to me.... you mention "either"... "or". That means they have no conclusive "evidence" so far. You concluded? So? It might be fine for you to eat them, but it isn't for me.



I do nothing for trend, my friend; never have. I am not a follower. I know what you mean, though, because I have seen that in this forum, but more for people becoming vegetarians and less becoming vegan because veganism takes lots of research and energy (most trend followers really have no idea that being vegan is so much more than what you put in your mouth) and requires changes in all areas of your life.



There's more to animals' experience than pain; there is the weeks, months, years of suffering before they are killed... it is all this that led me to being vegan. How does how I live my life as a vegan effect you? What about you, are you vegan and want to justify eating something or are you a meat eater trying to "prove" how ridiculous vegans are. Either way it doesn't matter because my actions have no bearing whatsoever on your life.



EDIT - what part of your question did I not answer? When plants develop nervous systems, come back to me then. Don't worry about Steve... he is not veg*n and he is a troll.



Of course, we come back to the same thing.... if you are eating plants that you claim feel pain, why would you critisize me for doing the same?



@ New and loved - Animals experience both emotional and physical pain... just like you do, so when you watch them, try to imagine yourself in that situation and then decide for yourself. See the video below........ does that cow deserve to be treated like that? It will give you a small snapshot about how animals are treated... this is not a gorey video, but it was bad enough FOR ME that this was the impetus that turned me vegetarian... the minute I saw the video below.

Answer 8

About a year ago, I went vegan because, like you ask, of animals. Ever since a young age, I've loved animals, and I didn't feel right participating in the killing of them for food, which is why I chose to be vegan.



Regardless on if an animal feels pain or not when consumed, or in the process to prepare them to be consumed, I do not feel comfortable eating them. I view them as equals to humans; they were placed on this Earth just as we were, and to me, it feels like murder. Now, I'm not comparing eating a hamburger to killing a person, I'm saying it gives me the same after-feeling (if that makes sense). In addition to he uncomfortable feeling I get when I ate them, I'm also not fond of the way they are handled before hand. The living conditions are unnatural, in my opinion, and not meant for any living creature to endure. Sure, my argument is full of holes and opinions, but this is why I chose to go vegan.

Answer 9

The problem comes from equating all animals as having equal rights & equal considerations i think. Grandin puts it much better than i do



"As the phylogenetic tree of animal species is climbed, protection from suffering must be increased. Chimps would require more protection and need different kinds of protection than frogs to insure that they would not suffer. Chimps have a more complex brain than frogs and a rich social life. As nervous system complexity increases, the animal needs increasing amounts of protection from society to insure that it does not suffer from pain, fear or a lack of environmental and social stimulation. Even though the phylogenetic tree is not linear it moves along its various branches from less complex nervous systems to more complex. Comparative physiology and psychology has shown that there is a broad range of nervous system complexity. As complexity increases a brain forms in the head of the animal that becomes increasingly complex..............

As the phylogenetic tree is ascended and nervous system complexity increases, animals will have other needs such as social interaction in addition to protection from pain and fear. My basic principle is that development of the nervous system as a major determinant of the welfare needs of the animal. "

Answer 10

I think it is just wrong to use animals. They are living beings and we are enslaving them. Oysters can actually feel pain, they have a nervous system. They just don't have a brain. There's a difference. Plants don't have nervous system or brain, so they really don't have any consciousness at all.

Answer 11

I've seen people picking off oysters off the rocks, opening them with a knife and eating it raw and alive. Apart from being gross and nearly making me vomit, something just didn't feel right about it, like there was something more. Oysters grow pearls when a grain of sand starts irritating their flesh, and the pearl acts as a buffer to stop the irritation. Biologically speaking, a single grain of sand shouldn't cause enough irritation to actually cause harm and injury, but for some reason they've developed a defense mechanism. Possibly to guard against pain? My response was that according to science they don't know for sure if they feel pain. And I shudder to think of tests being carried out to determine whether or not they do. I think even if I'd ever eaten seafood (which I haven't, I'll admit), I would have stopped when I became vegan. To me they're animals. Call it an energy thing, call it a "science doesn't know for sure so I'll be on the safe side and not eat them" - call it whatever. Something to me just didn't seem right watching them being eaten. As far as I know, plants respond to stimuli biochemically, and that seems right to me, and it's not something I doubt. I don't feel right about seeing trees cut down, or large branches coming off, and in a form of speciesism I don't feel bad about eating vegetables, or seeing crops being harvested. I don't get a creeped out feeling from that. But for some reason I feel sorry for oysters/shellfish. Probably because it was only recently that I found out that there was debate that they could even feel anything. When there are nerves, there's the ability to feel pain as pain is such a primitive response. To respond to pain and an organisms response to the pain, is more dependent on how complex an organism is. Basically, an oyster can't do very much. They probably don't have biochemical mechanisms to trigger hormones in response to pain, they can't scream, they can't run away, and they probably can't form a conscious thought after feeling it. All they can do is grow a pearl. Scientists can't measure pain itself - only guage responses to pain, and from that guess the level of pain.



edit: I'm not convinced earthworms don't feel pain. I've seen them accidentally cut by a spade. They don't exactly just lie there completely still...



@Hanazono, wow. I never realized what I thought or felt defined what veganism is. but thanks for the compliment. And yes, I choose to take it as that. And I choose to refuse to eat something if I don't feel comfortable with it. Tell me it's vegan, make the rulebook say eating oysters is considered vegan - whatever. I still won't eat them.



"Explain your ideas" to me that means explaining MY ideas and why I have one about something. I wasn't asked "can you please show me concrete evidence that they feel pain and therefore do you understand that it's nothing to do with veganism if they get eaten?" I explained my feelings about it, and it's up to someone else whether or not they think the same thing and want to include it in the definition of veganism. For all I know my thoughts about it are outside of veganism, therefore don't matter to other vegans, but she asked for people's thoughts and even more specifically would I personally eat them. If I choose not to because of what I think and how I feel about it, I fail to see how that means the sky's falling on our heads.

Answer 12

Animals in slaughter houses IN the U.S. are not in pain before they are put down- the USDA has too many regulations. its only when they are shipped out of country to have it done are there no regulations and the matter is questionable; they are only shipped out because humane societys shut them down in the US (kind of a contradiction in action, but whatever). No, im not vegan or vegetarian, but i do keep a check on these thinks as well as grown up in a town where that was everyones livlyhood- we are humane about it. Its all your choice about the oysters but i would say your probably safe

Answer 13

They are part of the kingdom Animalia. That's highly relevant to me, as I don't eat any animals. You can draw your line wherever you like.

Answer 14

No one can prove whether an animal feels pain or not - it is an assumption! Therefore, eating animals of any type is wrong!



Science cannot prove pain or lack of pain as it is a feeling! An animal may be feeling a lot of pain but not showing any outward behavioral signs!

Answer 15

I have a rule not to eat anything that is/was alive.

Answer 16

umm veronica, what are you gonna eat, rocks?